Reading some back and forth in another thread prompted me to begin this.

Ill begin with some things I believe. Teachers are undervalued in this country, they are being confused with an ugly union that does not have their best interests at heart.

The federal Department of Education should be done away with, it is unnecessary and a moneypit.

I full-on agree that teachers are undervalued in the US. It's extremely demanding work and it seems more and more that teachers as a class of professionals are under attack. Sad stuff.

I've noticed that a lot people will say that they could teach a class or a skill as if it's something you can just jump up and do with no training at all where they would never say the same of being an engineer or EMT, for example. It's a sad illustration of the extent to which people don't understand how the teaching profession (or perhaps an illustration of how a few bad apples spoil the bunch).

It's possible teachers as a group are under attack, but it could also be that it's the whole system of education in America that's under attack, and rightfully so. I had some great teachers during my education, and I also had some really bad ones. I also had many in the middle, just seeming to ride out their tenures. I think one of the biggest problems with the teaching profession is that success and longevity are not based on results. I can't think of many other professions, if any, where once you make tenure you can coast by to retirement.




Well, the difference between teaching and being an engineer or an EMT is that to teach is to pass on a skill you've learned, whereas the other two are skills that must be learned. Of course, not everyone can teach, and even people born with a natural ability to teach can benefit from specialized training in order to teach better. But, there are people who are naturally good at passing on their skills to another. Most half-decent parents possess the ability to teach their children, and every job I've done has been filled with people who taught me the skills I needed to know in order to do the tasks required.

I know for a fact I can teach certain skills because I've done it before. How would that translate to a classroom? That I'm not so sure about, which is where I think trained teachers would have an advantage. But, also, much of teaching in schools is dictated by state/district/school mandated curriculum. I think the really good teachers, the ones who can really connect with their students, are so good because they can teach not a subject, but a passion for learning. It's been my experience that these teachers are few and far between.

However, and here's where the problem comes in, they are all part of the same system. And unless I'm mistaken there's really no practical way of rewarding the really good teachers and weeding out the bad ones. The teachers unions protect them all together, so that unless they really screw up badly they will always have a job.

I'd argue that teaching well is a skillset as well. That was certainly the case for me (I taught English abroad for three years). That doesn't mean that there aren't people who have natural teaching ability, just that it's as much a skill as something that can be more easily measured such as EMT skills.



Everyone is different in this regard but it was very much my experience that I could be great at something outside the classroom and then have trouble teaching it to my students. That's where teacher training would've come in handy, although even then only on-the-ground experience can really make you learn how to use. Then again, I'm not a natural teacher. :)



+1 to that. I've been hella lucky to have a good number of my teachers be of this sort. Unfortunately I've also had some truly shitty teachers but then again you can't win 'em all...



Yeah, I can't think of any good way to do that either. Hell, if passion for the subject at hand is one of the primary marks of a good teacher how do you quantify that? Very much a tough row to hoe.

Any schoolteachers from the US who can speak to all this stuff? I can only speak from the perspective of someone who taught outside the US, which is a very different situation.

Teachers are undervalued in the US for sure. It's one of the few things that all the factions in the USA education debate agree on: that teachers are underpaid. Think about it, the advocates for merit pay do so with the promises of pay raises, teacher's unions are always lobbying for pay raises. There's absolutely no question teachers are underpaid if you ask anyone with a dog in the fight, so to speak.

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I look in your eyes and c fear! Ill take your sole and give it the devil

I have a question here, and I'm not asking this as a teacher or as a left winger, more as an immigrant who doesn't know as much about this country as he should... why is a federal department of education so bad? How does it waste so much money? Surely there has to be a national policy on education to ensure some kind of uniformity of standards?

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I look in your eyes and c fear! Ill take your sole and give it the devil

My amateur opinion BT on a national Dept of Ed is that it is just unnecessary. The country is too big and needs too different from area to area to have national standards. It is an issue that should be left to the states. We can not impose similar standards for schools in places like Gary Indiana and those in say Sedona AZ. It goes back to money.

How are the education needs of kids in Sedona and Gary that different, especially at the K-12 level? Kids all need to learn approximately the same stuff to prepare them for college and their role as informed citizens, and that education needs to be up to certain level of quality regardless of the state. I figure second to that it does make sense to have a Dept. of Ed. to oversee such things.

Teaching is a difficult and important job but when you factor in the months (literally) they have off and the great benifits they get, they are not underpaid. Nevermind the pension, tenure and union support for most of them.

But if you don't have national standards how are we to make sure all children hit x benchmark? I mean, there are pretty much generally agreed upon international standards for subjects like math. you can't have some state or county just going, fuck it, we're not learning that shit.... can you?

It's Saturday ktob, shouldn't you be at work?

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I look in your eyes and c fear! Ill take your sole and give it the devil