I agree with the comparison of Naz and Tyson

But i dont think Tyson was knocked silly by Douglas

REMEMBER the contraversial long count!!!!! (apparently referee put on a long count after Douglous was knocked down) Tyson did Knock down Douglas in Round 8 but he got up after about 11 -12 seconds, Most likely should have been a KO win for Tyson

Tyson was KOed in round 10, but had about the same 10 count length (ok the ref was consistent)

Tyson was given about the same time to get up off the canvas but the ref deemed him unfit to continue, which i also think he was

Tyson was already in a decline when he faced Douglas

And was not training aswell, gassed early in the fight, and was knocked down in sparring a few weeks before the fight

just to split hairs

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There are only 2 types of pain.........discipline and regret.

Shrewd observations Brooklyn. A good read.

The Tyson v. Hamed comparison stands. My sense is however, if their nationalities were reversed, so too would the sentiments of many - not all - fight-fans.

While Tyson basks in the hall of fame, Naz languishes. Is that fair? It's debatable.



True. Had Naz returned to beat Tapia, Morales or even Derrick Gainer history would remember him more fondly. Tyson's return, beating Bruno and Seldon, was memorable and says much about his character.

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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -- Tyson.

I gotta disagree with this one. I will give the benefit of the doubt to the masses and say most people recognize great fighters for their skills/accomplishments regardless of nationality. Prime British example, Lennox Lewis. He cleaned house, even lost a couple, but he fought the fights and is universally recognized as one of the best HWs ever. Most Americans have no emotional investment in the Phillipines but Pacman is the biggest name in boxing here. Many a US fan would like to see their fellow American, Mayweather, get thumped. Most of the fighters on my FW list were Latin...


Here's why I think it's fair. My opinion on Naz hinges completely on his near immediate departure from the sport. While Tyson lost all the big fights against the big names, he did show he belonged in the world class echelon. Same with de la Hoya who was top notch but fell short of greatness.

Had Hamed continued boxing and even lost to Tapia, Morales, and Gainer... as long as he fought a good fight and showed he belonged at that level that would be enough for me.

This goes to prove my comparison with Naseem! hamed was well in decline when he met Barrerra. he should have faced him after Steve Robinson but instead he fought Kelley. He didn't train for Barrerra at all and looked horrible in the small amount of sparring he did do. watch the documentary 'the Little Prince', it shows it all.

And Tyson was knocked silly by Douglas. watch the vid. He gets rocked repeatedly, responds with uppercuts from the outside - timing way off, vision affected, very likely already concussed - then Douglas smashes him with a wicked combination and Tyson goes down heavily with his head fishtailing all around from the shots he's taking as he falls. gets to his feet too late and he's falling into the ref as he does so. Any more 'silly' than that and it's Kostya v Zab silly.

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I look in your eyes and c fear! Ill take your sole and give it the devil

But Lewis fought most of his big fights in the States, which is why we don't really see him as one of our own. He was never loved in UK, if you watch interviews with fans, he was not a well-loved sportsman over here. He saw him as an American fighter whereas Frank Bruno, who ain't as good, was well loved because he was English through and through.

Same reason we love Ricky Hatton... always put his fans first!

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Goals

Goals for Summer 2012
187lbs
130kg Push Press
110kg Log Press
100kg Farmer's Walk
250kg Deadlift
25 One-Arm Press-ups
10 One-Arm Pull-ups
WIN A STRONGMAN COMPETITION!

MY LOG!!!
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64275

I've learned most of my dance moves from Zab Judah LOL!

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Goals

Goals for Summer 2012
187lbs
130kg Push Press
110kg Log Press
100kg Farmer's Walk
250kg Deadlift
25 One-Arm Press-ups
10 One-Arm Pull-ups
WIN A STRONGMAN COMPETITION!

MY LOG!!!
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64275

I have to give it to Frank Warren's ability to convince every Brit boxing fan alive that any fighter from The British Isles that they are some of the best ever, avoided by the rest of the world, and that they don't get their due respect because they aren't American fighters.

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You're welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcD-WVZpyQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwStHsrS4w

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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -- Tyson.

It is par for the course that when a Division is headed by a non-USA fighter, US fight fans claim the opposition is poor, the champion is a paper champion, the champion is ducking fighters, the champion is a bum etc etc.

Classic examples include Nazeem, the Klitschkos, Lewis, Calzaghe and Pacquaio (to a lesser extent).

That being said I find US fight fans to be the most educated on the planet. However, like every other fight fan the have a strong bias toward fighters from their own country - just like Frank Warren.

Agreed Gleeson.



If I was to offer prime examples of national bias by the US public it would be Joe Calzaghe and Lennox Lewis. I remember watching Lewis through the 90's. The narrative from British scribes was that the US media were never convinced about him ... Until Holyfield.

Tyson, like Jones Jr for Calzaghe, was a legacy fight.

Naz was ranked P4P #2 during his 5 year reign as Champion. I think that's an accurate reflection of his ability, so you won't be surprised to learn that I'd strongly favour the Prince v. Tapia. As verified by HBO above, Tapia didn't want the fight ... Because Naz belonged on that level and had proven so during his 5 year reign.

Incidentally, Tyson's reign was 3 years and 3 months with 9 successful defenses. The Prince's reign meanwhile, was 15 defenses over 5 years, 7 months. His competition was better too. Just a thought.

Now that's not to say I entirely disagree with you. The US public do support elite foreign fighters like their own. Pacquiao is a prime example of that. I do know that in the case of the Prince and Calzaghe, unless it occurred on US soil, it's as if though it didn't happen.

Just my take

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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -- Tyson.